Election latest: Deputy PM dismisses election threat from Reform; Farage says he 'doesn't want to know' racists (2024)

John Swinney also indicated his party would continue to press for a second referendum on Scottish independence even if they faced significant electoral losses.

"The issues that people are concerned about in Scotland today - the cost of living crisis, the cuts in public services and our public spending, the implications of Brexit - these are all decisions that were arrived at [in] Westminster," he said.

"If Scotland was an independent country, we could take a different course."

Mr Swinney also said that the economic consequences of Brexit amounted to "a very significant change in circ*mstances that I believe alone merits the right of the people of Scotland to decide their own future".

The SNP leader also acknowledged the party has had a "tough time" in recent months.

He said he "became first minister to essentially strengthen the party and to build a relationship with the electorate".

"We are building that trust as a unified and cohesive political party and it's unified and cohesive political parties that win elections."

Next up with Trevor Phillips is John Swinney, the leader of the SNP.

Trevor begins by asking about the issue of postal ballots having not arrived before people in Scotland head off on their summer breaks.

School holidays have already started in large parts of Scotland.

Mr Swinney says this is a "serious issue".

"We've had significant reports of people who were planning to vote by post, who had applied properly for a postal vote before the deadline 19 June and those postal votes have not arrived with people.

"Some of them have now left the country, and they have been disenfranchised by the timing of the election, which is something I deeply regret."

The Scottish first minister says the situation is "illustrative" that there was "no thought" given to the fact the election would take place during Scottish school holidays.

When asked about his alleged sympathies to Vladimir Putin by Trevor, Nigel Farage labels it as the "Russia hoax".

Instead he points to his previous predictions about the war in Ukraine.

"I understand why the Labour [and] Conservative Parties are worried. I was opposed to the Iraq War. I thought it was absolutely crazy to go into Libya. Ten years ago, I stood up in the European Parliament and I said, you are giving a dangerous man an excuse to give his people to go to war. I said there will be a war in Ukraine," he says, pointing his fingers.

"Can I be clear that Putin is a very, very dangerous and dangerously clever man. I abhor what he's done in Ukraine, totally and utterly. But I was far-sighted. I saw this coming," he says.

But Trevor accuses Mr Farage of answering his own questions rather than tackling what he's been asked.

He then asks whether there were Russian bots influencing the general election - something that Mr Farage emphatically dismisses.

"Did you ask him how many millions of pounds his party have taken from Russian sources over the course of the last few days?" Mr Farage asked instead.

Next up with Trevor Phillips is Reform UK leader Nigel Farage.

First, he is asked about racist comments made by Reform UK canvasser Andrew Parker, which Mr Farage claims was a set up.

But does the Reform UK leader have any proof?

Mr Farage claims that Mr Parker is an "actor" with an "alter-ego".

"I didn't know this was an act - it was an act from the start to the end," he claims. "He spent time with the two Channel 4 undercover reporters in the office... he then took canvassers out with Channel 4 in the car with him.

"He tried to get our canvassers to say nasty, racist things - which of course they did not. It was a deliberate attempt to derail our campaign."

Earlier this week, Channel 4 news aired footage filmed undercover that showed Andrew Parker, an activist canvassing for Mr Farage, using the racial slur "P***" to describe the prime minister, describing Islam as a "disgusting cult", and saying the army should "just shoot" migrants crossing the Channel.

Mr Farage claims this man was a "walking Alf Garnett, a character in the British sitcom Till Death Us Do Part".

Trevor then asks why people with extreme views appear to be attracted to Reform UK, and Mr Farage denies this is the case.

He says: "Anybody who has a racist point of view, I don't want to know."

The conversation with Pat McFadden now turns to child poverty, after former prime minister Gordon Brown yesterday called for action from Labour.

Trevor Phillips asks whether the party has already "made a choice" not to attack child poverty - and instead to satisfy older, wealthier pensioners.

Mr McFadden says: "I don't think the only way to tackle child poverty is through that single change.

"But there's a really important point in what you've raised. I could give you lots of challenges for the country. Child poverty is one.

"There are many others, and local authorities have very little money."

The Labour frontbencher goes on to "acknowledge the challenges facing us".

"The point is to begin. The point is to make a start," he says.

Now joining Trevor Phillips on Sky News is Pat McFadden, Labour's national campaign co-ordinator.

Trevor begins by suggesting that Labour would owe something to Nigel Farage and Reform UK if the party is to win a significant majority at Thursday's general election.

The Conservatives - who are 20 points behind Labour in the polls, with Reform UK closely behind - have lost a significant number of voters to Mr Farage's party.

But Mr McFadden insists the result is only in the hands of the voters.

"The power is in their hands," he says.

"There's a real chance for change. And I hope that people will show up. I hope they ignore these polls, to be honest."

Trevor presses on the matter, asking if there could be an issue with the legitimacy of a Labour government.

He asks: "Isn't there the potentially a problem that you become a government with essentially a poor mandate?"

Mr McFadden dismisses this idea. He says: "I think all this stuff about slicing and dicing the vote underestimates the credit due to Keir Starmer for changing the Labour Party and putting us in a position where this is even a possibility.

"Four or five years ago, a lot of people didn't think it was."

This morning's panel are now discussing Oliver Dowden's interview and the wider campaign.

Former Number 10 communications directors Alistair Campbell and Sir Craig Oliver, as well as former Liberal Democrat adviser Daisy McAndrew, have shared their thoughts on data showing that the joint vote share of Labour and the Tories has sharply declined in recent years, after decades of it hovering above 75%.

Ms McAndrew says the figure is "manna from heaven" for the smaller parties.

She also said the figures are due to the public being "much more promiscuous with their vote".

"They're not sticking faithfully to how their father or mother voted," she says.

"It's also indicative of the chaos that there has been and people just saying, 'I don't want anything to do with those two."

Meanwhile, Alistair Campbell said that on the doorstep, "it's still very volatile out there".

"I knocked on hundreds of doors yesterday and I would say [they are voting] definitely more Labour than anything else without a doubt.

"[There were] lots of Lib Dems who were onto the fact that this is going to be a wasted vote. But then lots of people say 'I'm really confused. I really can't work it out'," he says.

Mr Campbell says the solution is to make the campaigns "about hope, optimism".

"You [have] got to give people a tune to whistle to as they walk to the polling station with real delight in saying, 'yes, I'm going to get rid of this terrible government, but I also want this government to come in'."

Finally, Trevor asks the deputy prime minister if will he run for leader of the Conservative Party if it loses the election.

Mr Dowden says any stories about his potential candidacy for the party's leadership was "total and utter nonsense".

"There's only one thing that I'm focused on, and that is making sure we have an overall majority for the Conservative Party, to fight for every single vote."

Oliver Dowden has said he is "deeply saddened" by the racist language used by Reform activists.

Footage from an undercover Channel 4 reporter showed Reform campaigner Andrew Parker using a discriminatory term about the prime minister.

Rishi Sunak later said the insult "hurts and it makes me angry".

Asked about the incident, Mr Dowden tells Trevor Phillips: "I grew up in the 1980s, and I thought the use of the P word was was long behind us.

"Actually, I've been quite heartened by the fact that political parties from across the spectrum have come together to condemn the hurt, not just felt by the prime minister, but felt by the prime minister's family as well.

"I think it's right that we should all come together and call out the use of that deplorable language."

Deputy prime minister Oliver Dowden has dismissed Reform's chances in the election, saying: "There are only two people that can walk through the door of 10 Downing Street - Keir Starmer or Rishi Sunak.

"Rishi Sunak has a plan to cut people's taxes, to control migration, to protect our green belt. The alternative is Keir Starmer, who has a plan that will involve putting up people's taxes," he says.

When asked to try and persuade Nigel Farage to spare the Tories from a humiliating defeat, Mr Dowden says: "I'm not in the business of persuading any of my political opponents. I'm in the business of persuading people to vote for the Conservative Party.

"I do genuinely understand people's frustrations. But in the end, in this last week, it's the choice - Labour or Conservative to stop Labour getting in."